The problem (which in this case is a good thing) is that you can’t do one without doing the others. And ALL of the others.
CW/Phys? Sure you know the sheriff won’t die or be converted but he won’t be doing much checking.
Bulter? Ya but you can’t verify his alignment while he’s locked down.
Psychic? You can tell them to do something but you have to wait for them to get out of jail for them to do it.
How Prince is like each but not like each class:
Psychic:
Can talk to them at night
Doesn’t allow them to do an action to confirm themself
Physician:
Can prevent attacks on them
Worst idea to jail a poisoned/bleeding player however
Court Wizard:
Prevents bad effects on people
You also occupy them and prevent good checks or supports on them too
Butler:
…You got me here
But all that should be done is for Prince to lose Unstoppable
Even the fact that it outmodes the Butler in everyway is bad enough to me.
It does stop confirmation and investigations, but the other effects outweigh it.
I’d definitely feel better about it if it lost Unstoppable.
Still, it shouldn’t be so many classes in one.
Prince is jack of all trades master of none.
Everything he does someone else does better. My suggestion covered the one exception (butler)
Knight and phys are just better at stopping kills.
Psychic doesn’t slow down the people she is getting info from
Butler lets you check or otherwise interact with the occupied player
Knight has unlimited omniscient kills (sort of).
All of the above classes also have secondary powers supplementing their main one. (telepathy, Party/Nightshade, Reanimate ect.) Prince just has his Jail/Execute which are both tied closely together.
Sure prince is better than ANY of those classes but if you had a psychic, butler and knight who all knew each other and were communicating somehow (discord? psychic double link being added?) even if they gave themselves an arbitrary rule to only target the same person and always do their action they would still do better than the prince.
I know that never happens but my point is that prince is worth less than the sum of his parts (what I was trying to say earlier). Even if that sum is higher than any of the parts are.
All classes should be around the same power level. Otherwise it is swingy if they get killed. King has Guards to deal with this.
We need to cut on occupy immunity in general, Prince being one good place to start.
I’d argue we should do the same with Hunter, and probably even the Mastermind.
not that, I just mean that this way, Prince can’t execute at night automatically
Imprison should be unstoppable
Hunter possibly, but Mastermind losing occupy immunity would be a major blow to Unseen
I think it would help Butlers/Drunks
CL can experience it, and it’s not particularly devestating.
Actually I think optimally it would be occupy immune for the first 3 nights.
But the point of nerfing Prince is to buff Unseen and Cult, we would be kinda countering the point
I honestly think Prince should stay the same.
It is dumb to step up for King as Prince as you are BD’s most powerful asset (unless you die n1 as always but that’s besides the point). You don’t get to utilise the Prince’s abils if you step up for King and players usually go against putting up Prince for king.
Convertable Prince should not be a thing because jailing will just become a joke. Next thing they’re going to force Prince to execute someone just to confirm himself. Also Prince as as Invoker would not work, sure you could add a new Cult Killing class, but Hunter and Knight will also gain these abilities. So bad idea as it’ll confuse the shit out of people. People will not take claiming to Prince seriously anymore and it’ll become from “Oh hey, I know that he’s on my side. I’m going to claim to him honestly” to “Ummm, tell the truth or no?”
I think occupy immunity is really needed for Prince as if he is ever occupied, you just stopped the execution of a possible scum. Prince would be underpowered af if this happened.
Jail target having visits blocked is rarely used for protection. As you are also occupying them making it so that a confirmed sheriff cannot do his day job. This also blocks heals unlike a Court Wizard barrier.
Remember, Prince jails count TOWARDS occupy immunity, players that have been repeatedly imprisoned cannot be imprisoned, also it is usually a bad idea to imprison the exact same person in a row.
I honestly think that this thread was made because of saltiness that Prince kept executing you.
Also NuclearBurrito brought up a good point.
Execute cares about occupation though. Currently, there’s no counterplay to it other than happy hour.
No. There are too many conversion immune classes as is, this would make it worse
I think the best way to nerf prince would be to replace unstoppable with a one-time night immunity. It would make him less swingy and give evils counterplay to him
I know. I was trying to say that it wouldn’t effect the butler comparison.
It would need to be a time limited night immunity to stop overcompensating. Like night immune until N4 like with MM invest immunity.
None of the ideas here would make the Prince any more fun to play, nor are they redistributing the power you’re taking away to BD.
Prince is not a better Butler because he can’t affect the King at all and he prevents visits meaning you stop Knights from CSing or Alchs from bombing or King from OEing. Mind you, this rarely comes up in actual play but they’re all things that can happen.
Maybe it could be changed to this instead:
Passive: Heir: As a royal, you can put your name forward for nominations to become the next king before non-royals. You will have the abilities of the starting king if you become king.
Explanation: There is rarely a good reason for the prince to step up. Even without executed, the prince is still the most powerful BD class.
Night ability: Execute(3 uses): same.
Night ability: Hide(1 use): No one will be able to visit you tonight. You will be told who tries(like the old surveillance but not overpowered. Fool’s hide should also be changed to this)
Explanation: Makes the prince less swingy.
Day ability: Imprison(unlimited): Same but change the wording of “prevents visitors” to “prevents targeting”.
Day ability: Protective custody(1 use): You will be immune to death, occupation, and redirection tonight.
Explanation: Makes the prince less swingy.
Also, prince should be changed to BD special. It has aspects of several types.
Why redirection and occupation? If you are using this then you aren’t jailing.
This is overcompensating as the optimal useage of this is to wait until late game and use it when he’s most likely to be attacked.
I feel like whatever we use should be worked into a passive so it’s not saved for later where it’s too impactful.
Prince
Blue Dragon Special
Passive 1: Royal Blood - Same (stepping up is a huge trade-off with fringe benefits. No need to really change that)
Passive 2: Unstoppable - Night immune for the first 3 nights. (We can change it to first 2 nights if needed). The jailed player will be prevented from visiting you.
Day Ability: Imprison - Put target player in jail. Occupying them and preventing targets on them. (Unlimited)
Night Ability: Execute - Kill the jailed player. Bypasses night immunity. Disabled if you have killed a BD. (3 uses)
