I was banned as of this morning for 24 hours. The reason being, “revealing Unseen.” Now I can sort of accept this ban, as I did reveal unseen in my journal.
However, what I want clarification on is, can you also be banned for outing a fellow unseen/cult in the day time?
The reason I outed the MM in my journal is because I was converted N1, then outed by my MM D2. He then proceeded to tell me afterwards that alcoholic is not a good converted class so he wanted me out. This is especially annoying because he is essentially doing the same thing I am doing but for some reason, my actions are reportable. It is often the case unseen may “out” fellow unseen in their journal to try and get more BD killed. In a fashion, what I am doing is “metagaming” to mess with BD. So what exactly is the difference here and why is my case bannable?
Because you put the Mastermind in your journal out of what was clearly spite for being bussed.
Could you explain how exactly it is clear? What is the difference from me outing an MM in my journal and hoping bd will think Im lying? Again, I understand in the wrong here, but I would like a more clear explanation where the line is. Can unseen/cult use the journal to their advantage in this method or not? If the plan backfires, is it automatically a reportable offense? Is outing a bad converted class ok in the eyes of the community?
The difference is you weren’t lying. In this case, especially with the Mastermind, you could only really hope to hurt your team through putting them in your will. Long story short, bussing a teammate like the MM did to you is fine. It gains the important Unseen roles credibility and frees up space to convert another BD. The reason what you did isn’t fine is because, in dying and revealing your will, you already have a free spot for another conversion, and in revealing the MM you essentially end the game then and there.
Plus, if it says at the top of your journal not to do something, you probably shouldn’t do it. 
So according to you, it is ok to out fellow unseen in the day even in spite and it is not acceptable to out any other “evil” in the journal, even if it’s a BD.
The reasoning behind the actions isn’t terribly important as anyone can make up any reason for their actions and nobody could prove or disprove otherwise.
Bussing is perfectly acceptable. Mm faking an invest class is a key tactic which they need to survive the game. I personally would have bussed the assassin, but you broke the rules and deserve the ban.
I’m not quite sure how many times I have to say it, but I am not trying to appeal my ban. What I would like is a better understanding of the rules. This is the first game of this type I have ever played. The rules in this case, disgarding the motives seems extremely unclear. Can I “out” others in my journal to get them killed? If so, can I do it to teammates in order to relieve them of suspicious? If it backfires, are my actions then reportable? Neither of you even tried to answer this question and are focusing on my motives which cannot be proven.
Here’s the long and short of it.
The dev’s have basically stated with regards to outing unseen in day chat, if it is at all possible, you should get permission and agreement to bus a fellow unseen member during the day. IE you have a night chat, bussing is a valid strategy, BUT the outcome of a salty team mate calling you out as he gets executed etc… makes it somewhat gamethrowing to do it.
Some scenerio’s that it is more grey, would be say if you were the sheriff… you call out an unseen you found on day 3. Night 3 you are converted, and get confirmation that the person you accused was indeed assasain. I would say in that case, it is probably a good idea to continue calling out that assasain to disguise the fact that you have been converted. (although this is a grey area with the rules)… technically you are still subject to reporting and possible warnings/suspensions in this case, as you did not get permission, but it is at least understandable why you couldn’t get it, as you’d never have had a night to communicate.
Any other scenerio though in which you’ve had time in night chat, you should get permission from the person to bus them… you have the option, and thus there’s no excuse not to get permission.
And yeah outing unseen in logs, there’s just no excuse at all there. your side gains absolutely nothing no one earns any unwarented credibility, and loses everything.
You said you were annoyed and acted in spite, which proves you were game throwing, not trying to help your team. Unseen who lose the mm early, lose usually
https://forum.imperium42.com/t/what-gamethrowing-is-work-in-progress-guide/1705
Thank you Vandalay for attempting to answer my question.
But, from my understanding of your post, I can report the MM for outing me without permission? And outing them in logs, for any reason at all is not an allowed strategy at all?
Moleland, for some reason you are still fixated on the motives. You would never have known my motives had I not stated them and are irrelevant to my questions.
If what you say is true, there might be a reason to take a new look at the report that got you banned to see if Mastermind did indeed throw you under the bus just because you were a bad convert class.
This is a case for the mods to take, so let us others not get mixed in it okay?
Even if the mastermind did do it for that reason, then Mastermind still wasn’t game throwing. The Op is for revealing the mastermind in his log
The link did not answer my questions.
The Mastermind was not game throwing and broke no rules. You were game throwing.
Since you are so fixated on this, is gamethrowing the only reportable offense in this game? Without knowing my motives are my actions still game throwing? If the MM was not breaking any rules, can I do the same simply for not liking someone?
I am raising these questions so I can know what the limits are of what I am allowed to do in game or not. If i get outed because the MM doesn’t like my class and no discussion was had, I can then assume the reason here doesn’t really matter because it can not be proven. Thus, I can out any teammate for any reason.
I will say this again since you are still showing a lack of understanding. I am not trying to get my ban appealed. I am trying to get a clearer understanding of the rules and while the link you posted was very informative, it does not answer my questions.
Game throwing is the most common reasons, but there is also things like harassment, abuse or inappropriate language/names.
I refer you back to that link in answer to your other questions:
There is a rule - or maybe more of a’suggestion’ that buses should be discussed, wherever possible, with the bussee and that everyone should agree. But, in the Mastermind’s opinion, he would be better off converting a ‘better’ player, and that the unseen would be better off sacrificing you.
He was a jerk to do it immediately and not discuss it, but he doesn’t have to. Now, bussing team mates because you don’t like them could fall under harassment and are not acceptable.
So I can out a teammate, claim it was for the good of the team even though it’s because I converted someone that was toxic in chat and wanted him dead. This is why I’m saying motive here is irrelevant. There is no way to prove it unless it was stated in chat.
Off of my opinion, I’d like to agree with you… that being said with the mod’s and dev’s it shows a lot more of a grey area… here’s the last long discussion on the topic with quite a bit of mod involvement. https://forum.imperium42.com/t/bussing-teammates-without-consent/8126/12
Like I said, bussing without consent should be avoided. The Dev’s and mod’s say you shouldn’t, but doing so in itself is not against the rules.