[SFM] Newbie-Friendly Pokèmon 9er - Town Win

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#2241

But I’m not blindly trusting Arctic; you asked me to give a non-confbiased read on you, and I did.

He didn’t really save you for last; you made enough slip-ups earlier that we all had at least a scumlean on you.

Sounds kinda desperate, but I appreciate that you’re trying.

He literally outed as wolf and voted himself. He’s doing it to distract us so we don’t suddenly decide to vote you out first, and/or giving you the chance to hammer Kiro to shut me up. It’s a distraction and nothing more, because he sees exactly where this is going.

No, we don’t quickhammer 15 minutes into the day, but I’m confident in my own reads on you and Arctic now, and you should be confident in my reads, too, at this point. You don’t have to appeal to me, anyway, as you aren’t getting lynched today. I’ll die tonight and you’ll have to appeal to Worse instead.

#2242

I mean… unless you’re saying you’re keeping me alive as the tiebreaker between Arctic and you tomorrow, and killing Worse instead lol.

#2243

Hey @YoubutWorse how confident are you feeling in your reads right now? I think Gorta’s trying to figure out which of us is easier to persuade.

#2244

I feel really confident, and nothing gorta is saying is changing my mind.
but
Why did appel jump off the train of Gorta? I keep coming back to that. I wish she stated exactly why she thought that. That’s the one thing that makes me doubt myself. Will still probably be voting gorta though

#2245

I think she just got too frustrated and might have wondered if Gorta would be a complete mislynch. Unfortunately, we probably would have gotten more information from lynching Gorta and seeing him flip either way than Appel, but too late to regret that.

Gorta, care to explain from your POV why Appel would have pushed on you if you were actual town and so was she? Have you ever seen her tunnel a townie like that when she herself was town?

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#2246

and I appreciate it because it allows me to understand your position, but you are still letting a wolf con you and you won’t realize it till it’s too late and you see “mafia wins” in the thread title (again)

He did save me for last because I am so damn easy to lynch. I mean look at it, I screwed up a few times and you will believe anything Arctic says about me.

Yeah, I’m trying, because it’s on me to keep this town from self destructing and siding with a damn wolf.

Why would I hammer Kiro right now? Answer me that honesty. From my point of view I am going into a d4 where everyone is against me will likely vote me out. What does it benefit me to quick hammer and have town just lose d4 because they trust the damn wolf over me.

I am just trying to prove that I am not the damn wolf here and you are the most active, so I am talking with you.

I am not the damn wolf regardless, so I can’t kill at all. This is the kind of tunnel vision that will lose town the game

I wouldn’t even need to guess that part. @YoubutWorse you have to be confident, but not so confident that you don’t accept any other outlook on said matter. That’s what happened with Appel for me. I was so confident that Appel would be wolf that I just saw every little thing she did as scummy and pushed the lynch anyway. It’s a newbie trap that even those with experience fall into from time to time and I am just trying to warn you about it.

That’s actually a good question

#2247

I know in the past, when I was in tunnel mode, Arete still read me as town and didn’t think the push came from scum. I don’t quite know why Appel did that, but she must have thought I was somewhat towny or else she would have kept up that push. Like there must have been some kind of gut feeling saying something opposite of her own read. I get those feelings as a gut reader. I actually don’t know if I have seen her tunnel a townie, but it happens to the best of us. Two of this sites better players, Katze and Vulgard, still managed to tunnel each other one game, so yeah, it’s something that happens to the best of us

#2248

I just reread your question, well, at least the bottom part semi answers it. I can have a second go at it if you would like

#2249

*misread

#2250

the relevant info here

#2251

I think it says something that she did jump off the wagon and called me a bad towny at the end there

#2252

For that matter, I will also believe almost anything everyone else says about you, too, and there’s a consensus that you’re a wolf. The only one who didn’t say outright that you’re a wolf is Kiro because he openwolfed himself already. He doesn’t want us taking a chance and voting to exe you D3 because since Kiro is a guaranteed wolf, if we get it right and exed you today, we’d win for sure.

I actually thought maybe you’d hammer Kiro to end this discussion and get me out of the game sooner, but I see you’re using your time constructively to attempt a last effort to persuade Worse and me that you’re not scum and Arctic is. You’re testing to see which of us is the most pliable right now. I’m not budging so you’re saying I’m in confbias. Worse says he’s confident but asked about the Appel vote, meaning you’re much more likely right now to kill me tonight and keep Worse alive to continue trying to persuade him to side with you. It’s dangerous to keep this day going, but I’m not in the mood to hammer and I’ll let Arctic do it if he wants when he comes back online.

No, I’m very convinced you’re trying to reason with me because:

  1. you’re testing whether I’m easier to sway than Worse;
  2. the more time you have, the more cases you’re going to pull out of a hat against Arctic;
  3. if you can make me doubt that you’re a wolf, it may also change Worse’s opinion because right now, I’m the one with the strongest opinion and also considered the most trustworthy.
    The next most trustworthy player here is Arctic, which is why you’re framing him and not Worse.

But it’s just as easy (or even easier) to admit you pushed Appel because she was your agenda push, just like how Arctic is your agenda push. I mean, Arctic isn’t even hard pushing you. He made his read, said the Gorta/Kiro scumteam makes perfect sense, and that’s basically it. I know for a fact Arctic isn’t dying tonight since you’re pushing on him to leave him as a suspect, which tells me you’re entirely grasping at straws now because you ended up in a bad situation with an outed wolf, a heavily suspected wolf, and two players who can essentially command the court. With Arctic and me both still in the game, it’s a worst-case scenario for you and you have to choose which one of us to frame and which one to kill.

Of course you think it says something. Considering she didn’t flip wolf, she was admitting she didn’t have a confident read because people make mistakes. It’s NAI for her and it’s also NAI for you.

Honestly. If Arctic actually were a wolf he’d more or less deserve to win at this point because of his plays, but I just can’t see it. If I try to scumread everything he’s done, it seems NAI at best without any obvious slips. If I try to scumread you, it’s much scummier than NAI with plenty of slips. And because Kiro openwolfed, you’re the only one left to agenda push. I don’t think Kiro would necessarily have openwolfed if he didn’t have a strong pusher to carry the game, and right now Arctic isn’t doing much pushing. I haven’t seen him push since his push on me.

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#2253

Literally right now it’s just wolfwolfwolf from you because you’re trying so hard to defend yourself by accusing Arctic.

#2254

I’ll have to reply to this in a bit, but I will respond

#2255

I also strongly trust what Cloned said about lynching you if Appel flipped town. Cloned has more experience so if he thought that one of you flipping town meant the other was wolf, then he’s likely correct.

1 Like
#2256

He also went in with me on the tunneling Arete train in Corrupt votes and thought Silviu was a wolf d1 and expressed disbelief in his reads over an over again here this game.

#2257

See, it’s not just my opinion that you’re a wolf. Cloned thought you were a wolf, Appel thought you were a wolf, Arctic thinks you’re a wolf, Worse thinks you’re a wolf, and Kiro called you an idiot lol.

And yes, I read that, but tbh just from reading the whole first day I also would have thought Silviu was a wolf from the way he derailed the conversation…

#2258

@YoubutWorse @WindwardAway if Arctic hammers I want both of y’all to think about things and try to re-evaluate things. I can prove with town and scum games so that people can check out my playstyle as town and scum

#2259

*provide

#2260

I feel like you really have TMI if you’re framing Arctic, btw.

I could have been bluffing this entire game about being a tracker because the only tracking I claimed to have done was tracking Cloned N1. I knew there was like a 90% chance he was going to take his night action on me so I could have simply lied about being a PR, faked the track, and then “baited” Kiro so that he’d say he was on me so I could bus him, while not actually being a PR myself in the first place.

You never considered a world in which this was possible, but I know Worse and Arctic both said if I actually turned out to be scum it would be GGs. You didn’t consider this at all, and went to pushing on Arctic instead of me. You could have made my entire history of claiming invalid by ISOing me, but you haven’t and you conveniently assumed that I really was a town PR.

So either you know I’m a tracker because Kiro rolechecked me, or you always knew at the very least I wouldn’t be a non-PR scum because you’re the one who’s scum.