And if she did count against their numbers? You’d be trading a useful converted class you can talk to and coordinate with at night for a more powerful class that is harder to work with.
They’re not guaranteed kills and she can’t become assassin/cult leader/mastermind. It doesn’t seem automatically better than a normal converted class. Tempting, sure, but not necessarily always better.
You are still underestimating extra kills. Also that downside is negligible in a cult game. You NEED to give it different converted abilitys
I’d straight up rather remove her ability to kill. The entire point of the Queen was a class that can be converted without actually changing anything.
Fair enough, I accept that.
What mechanic would be equally useful for BD and evils? There’s only a couple of classes that do redirection/target changing. Perhaps that? Or something else entirely?
Focus more on the class and less on the convert mechanics. It doesn’t matter how good your system is if the class is bad anyway
Not all classes are designed to address specific issues 
Some of them are (like my earlier design on the Saint), but others (like this one) are more about adding something new to the game.
The game lacking something can be a problem. It was the reasoning behind the merchant, the duelist and the bastard (all class ideas I have worked on). What is important is that you know exactly WHY your class needs to exist
I think having a convertable target that doesn’t participate in the night chat with the other Unseen/Cult and adds a layer of complexity to their coordination (due to public whispers/indirect instructions) is a unique addition that rewards skilled social players on both sides. There’s a lot of logic and deduction in ToL, so having a class that rewards skillful communication and being good at the “social” side of “social deduction game” is, I think, a significant improvement worth pursuing.
Also why does it need to be someone convertable? Don’t the Sellsword, King and sorcerer provide that dynamic but better?
Not all classes have deep concepts. The Scorned and the Fool are classes that exist to exploit the daytime execution system and punish players for being too aggressive with it. Their ability to frame also discourages over-reliance on investigative classes. They’re fairly simple concepts but work decently well as classes.
Re: King/Sellsword, I agree, I like both classes and I would like to see more of them, but the key difference is that both classes already start aligned and their alignment doesn’t change throughout the game. Having a powerful class that starts good and may or may not end up evil adds tension to the game and adds another layer of mystery. The King is an excellent role because of the tension and mystery of not knowing if they’re good or evil. That’s something I was trying to recreate here, but with a twist.
First of all the scorned and fool both exist for very spacific reasons.
Fool: Discourages random accusations and vote for class.
Scorned: Gives a reason for early game fake accusations thus giving scum a method of surviving an early game accusation.
Second of all you have failed to create a system that achieves your goal (hence why defining that goal is important) as a single whisper reduces the class down to an evil king in effect. The BD doesn’t care about the possibility because they can deal with it like any other class and it always knows it’s own faction and scum still know she was converted.
1 Like
And that brings me to part 2 of my step by step process.
How can the problem be solved with the least number of changes?
I don’t agree at all that it was a failure. I wanted a specific effect and I created a class around it. If people think the class is too powerful for that effect, that can be discussed and negotiated, but the fact remains that I designed the exact effect I wanted.