but why was there no CW and then when we CFD’d to Appel Cloned was like “let’s lynch CRich”
Just popping in to catch up quickly. I can’t be here for most of the (irl) day, so I’m gonna give some quick thoughts:
I still think there’s a decent chance Appel is scum and she remains firmly in my PoE for today. The votes that look the worst by EoD are Min’s and ATN’s because I think the CW was likely started by town (Cloned) and that a wolf mightve jumped on in an attempt to save Appel. Out of the three who voted CRich, ATN looks the wolfiest, especially since I recall him plopping a townlean on CRich in his summary post and then immediately placing a vote on him when he saw there was a wagon.
The problem with this theory is that I’ve been feeling confident that Marl (and therefore his slot) was town. He replaced out after the identity reveal, though, so if he was playing a good scum game or if he got converted on N2 (if Sulit was a wolf), there’s not as much to go off from reading him rather than ATN. And I don’t think anything ATN has said thus far has struck me as wolfy, except for his change of opinion on CRich. I’ll look into his slot more when I come back.
I’m not convinced Min was ever scum. I agree with what was being said about it being a normal night kill, probably to frame them for spending 3 days in the consensus PoE. I won’t discount the possibility that I could just be totally wrong and that Min really was a wolf, but I have doubts about that and I also think town!Min would be able to eventually clear themselves if kept alive. As I recall from other games I’ve played with them, they’ve never gotten yeeted as town even if they remain in the PoE for a while.
I don’t have much of a read on the people who have more or less been treeing since the identity reveal, although it would make sense that a wolf would fall into this category because their meta would be more obvious since then. However, since the trees weren’t on at EoD, there are no wagonomics to go off to read them, which is a bit annoying (but EoD wasn’t at a particularly convenient time for me, either, so I kind of understand why people wouldn’t have been on).
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That sure was… something.
I was already townreading CRich, and I can’t fathom why people would vote him out of everyone. My scumreads didn’t change all that much, with the exception of ATNoName concluding that CRich is town and then immediately voting them afterwards
Cloned’s behavior here is like a carbon copy of Umineko, with them finding the thread state bizarre and thus pushing for a CFD
So they’re like
Always town here
Setting my reads aside: Why on earth was I suddenly scumread in the span of a few minutes like that??
I already had Uni in my PoE, and stated that I just had an urge to tease Gorta, so I wasn’t planning on voting him in the first place. I was content with just leaving my vote on anyone who was in my PoE, and I’m fairly sure I actually said this
So Uni making it seem like some super agenda-pushing at the last minute is just, weh?
I’d understand it if they had made the read earlier when it was actually relevant
But them stating such a small thing that could’ve been explained much earlier, just as people were conflicted about the wagons at that time, and suddenly starting to scumread me for it seems incredibly opportunistic
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I think it’s interesting that Cloned did that to save you, so if you are scum I think Cloned could be as well
I don’t quite remember what I found weird from you, but others found you weird as well
That’s a fair take, even if it’s incorrect
You know how Cloned acted in Umineko as town, so I’ll just point you to there
I remember me and I think some others questioned why there was no CW to min and then the wagon shifted to you with like 30 minutes left in the day
I’m not entirely sure? From what I can remember, he talked about all the wagons and just the overall state of the thread, which is identical to his earlier behavior in Umineko
From what I could grasp, the only reason Uni scumread me was that I voted a person in my PoE without giving a reason for it :wowee: I’m not sure if it was the same with everyone. My biggest problem is that these supposed concerns about my slot were voiced at a very convenient time, which leads me to believe that wolves were pushing me for a miscuddle
Anyway, I’m actually a bit busy right now, so I’ll be back^^
So did you have ATNo as town lean/read or null prior to that? How strongly do you scum lean/read them now?
I originally thought their slot was really towny when they were Marl, but less so when ATNoName replaced in. I was going to let it be due to my earlier townlean, but their vote at EoD was actively scummy so I think they deserve to be re-evaluated. I don’t think that vote ever comes from a town, so they’re a slight scumlean now.
I remember that Cloned was one of the players who questioned why nobody was voting Min, and I think he tried to vote Min first before shifting to CRich because he thought the Appel wagon formed too fast.
(I have a couple minutes’ break so I’m here for a bit)
I went back again to address Cloned’s post. At the very least I think I’m following most of his thought process here because he wrote it out, but I’m a little unsure of a few things.
@clonedcheese judging by your list of possible teams, you think that most likely two of Whysper/Appel/ATN are scum, and Appel and AT are only ever scum together.
Is there a reason you don’t think Whysper can be scum with Appel and AT?
You say that AT is scum if Appel is scum, but if AT is scum does that still mean Appel is scum?
ATN’s EoD looked very wolfy to me, in comparison to when Marl was in the slot, and I can’t really see why wolf!ATN would’ve put a vote on CRich if the wagons were for some reason v/v, unless he was trying purposely to make the other wagon look bad, so I do understand your logic in chaining Appel and ATN together. At any rate I think we just yeet one, and if wolf, probably yeet the other next, but I probably shouldn’t be preflipping.
That being said, I think the case against Appel is still valid today, although I’d like to interact with her a bit when I have more time and feel out her thoughts in the thread. I’m not at all surprised she’s scumleaning ATN now as she’d be forced to if they’re a wolf team, but I’m thinking as town it’s a bit of an odd conclusion to draw, because if Appel is town, there would be no reason for wolf!ATN to rand the execution (unless, as I said before, it was to make the Appel wagon look bad).
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I gotta dip again, but when I come back I want to look into Whysper’s and EVO’s slots as I think they’re worth discussion as well, and I haven’t gone into their ISOs yet.
Exactly! I’m glad you noticed this. Appel thought to distance herself from ATNo, but she’s basically made a perspective slip and open-wolfed by SLing him now. W!ATNo would never vote to tie V/V wagons like that. In fact, he would have just made his statement about not being sure about either and just not vote. So V!Appel of all people should be TRing ATNo instead. She should be viewing it as just ATNo making a mistake between V/V wagons.
So Appel is currently my strongest SR, followed by ATNo. There’s still a very small chance that he was town making a mistake like he said and not noticing the vote count. But I really doubt this. I’ll hold my vote off Appel since we might be getting close to hammer and I still want us to keep the full day.
Windward and Uni shot up to my highest TRs since they are never W/W with Appel as has been stated before. I’m moving Cloned down slightly to just TL because I’m starting to wonder about all the confusion he’s been causing, especially that CFD off Appel. I could still see town Cloned doing something like this.
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It has nothing to do with my alignment. I don’t know if other people townread CRich, but they were a lot more active than I was, and I was heavily suspected whereas Cloned was asking people to vote for CRich. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few scenarios:
- ATNoName wanted to make Cloned look bad by having CRich flip V
- They viewed CRich to be more of a threat than me / they viewed me to be an easier miscuddle
- They literally did not care about which one would die; they stated they weren’t looking at the VC
I feel like Wind’s post reads as tonally ~alright, but Whysper staying quiet, then eagerly jumping to scumlock me is a bit 
I feel like this could be worded better: I was suspected by a lot of people, whereas the main driving force behind CRich’s wagon was Cloned asking for people to vote him. I don’t think it’s an impossible theory that ATNoName wanted to take advantage of the situation to kill off someone in the spur of the moment who was otherwise towny.