Discussion: How Can We Promote The Use Of Social Deduction?

#62

Remember that a lot of the time the BD will disregard a scumread on the grounds that it’s not conclusive evidence of anything, usually because they don’t know how to properly evaluate it since they don’t understand it themselves. If this happens usually comes down to the defending players claim. Something like Knight = eh kill them anyways, but then something like butler or observer = who care if they are acting sus, we have fax, no way they could be converted or something.

If everyone or at least most people could scumread properly, or at least understood the basics, then it would be easier to get players executed without hard evidence, since soft evidence would be more likely to be taken seriously.

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#63

Same goes for the reverse when defending yourself.

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#64

If you need a specific example. Me (as Paladin) and another Paladin claim both said someone was NS in our logs.

When that person was voted (I forget why) up I defended them on the grounds that they were NS. Later they were killed and they turned out to be a CL.

Predictably the BD turned on me and had the Prince jail me. I pointed out that defending someone you know to be your fellow CL would be a terrible idea since you would be outed, the other paladin had done just that by downplaying their finding the CL NS, and that between the Ritualist and Apostle being a thing (this was pre-apostle nerf) a CL being NS to a Paladin isn’t even that unlikely.

The Prince even acknowledged that what I said made sense but ignore it and killed me anyways. And while he did bring up what I said about the other Paladin (who was indeed cult) the next day it didn’t lead to a lynch, just a jail.

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#65

personally, i dont think we have to.
mechanical play, or rather the right kind of mechanical play, can have similar levels of difficulty with similar levels of rewards

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#66

Paladin who sniped the Cult disagrees

#67

wow its almost like i predicted what you would think and preemptively clarified what i was talking about

#68

Paladin who randomly, with no intent either way, sniped the Cult disagrees

#69

thats chance and can happen even without any feedback whatsoever. thats just a byproduct of having it not be mountainous.

besides, neither that nor the first scenario falls under the right kind of mechanical play

#70

In any case, Mountainous ToL sounds fun.

#71

then its just not tol tho

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#72

the only difference from standard mountainous would be flavor, otherwise it is not longer a mountainous.

mayybe trials, but thats kinda pushing it

#73

ToL Mountainous, but it’s always confirmed Unseen who have a limited amount of converts, 1, maybe 2 at most.

#74

well with conversion it’s not mountainous

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#75

then its not mountainous lol.
in mountainous nobody has any abilities

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#76

It’s not meant to be completely mountainous, not many people would be interested in that. But this is practically mountainous.

#77

If I may comment on that subject and start from beginning, since I think I lost quite a bit of this conversation. I am not certain what would be the best way of promotion (Social deduction) and not processus of elimation. Without Directly Going to the (Loup-Garoux de thierce-lieux) Went by Forbidding players from claiming their Classes.

Right. the game is easy. you write the Claims of every other players and you use those claim to (deduce who could be evil), by processus of elimination.
Because of the confirmabilty of certain classes, and because normally. BD never lies about their claim. finding evil can be a simple processus of eliminating the weak claims. ) although sometimes its very confusing, exemple. when thereare 3 phys and 3 cw claims. add 3 sheriffs to that,

you can easily find a sheet
1 King
2 Prince
3 Sheriff
4 phys
5 Chrono
6 hunter
7 Noble
8 chrono
9 knight
10 butler
11 drunk
12 Merc
13 Scorned
14 Pret
15 phys
16 Maid

then you began like using people’s logs to prove or disprove them as bd. and when that’s done. we can fish for evils or more in like 5 claims. here we have 4 5 8 9 15 + 3 and 16…
in any case. its hard to consider the scorned, the Butler, the Drunk, the Hunter or the Pret to be suspects, they may have very easy time in confirming themselves, alone.

We need to find a way, to prevent players from simply filling the sheet and processus of elimination. so they can focus more on the comportement of players, instead of their claims.

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#78

Luckily it looks like they’re starting to move in that direction

Which is good considering it’s been like seven months since the last nontrivial balance patch and a year or more since the last one of a larger size.

Time will tell if 2.5 is just the first of several updates getting things moving or if it’s destined to be another small bi-yearly balance patch as the game freefalls into near-ToS levels of inaction

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#79

Hey, we just had to clean up and rewrite a lot of code, but now balance patches should be wayyyyy easier.
I think we are going into a direction where its not as easy to confirm yourself mechanically, but still having a lot of focus on the mechanics.

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#80

wait ur on the coding team now? or just we as like the tol team in general?

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#81

Oh nope, just a Judge who’s married with ToL.
Not coding myself ^^

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