[SFM] Newbie-Friendly Pokèmon 9er - Town Win

[kiromishiro21]

@kiromishiro21

I feel like wong is being sincere.

I feel like “wing” is being sincere.

[WindwardAway]

Hmm. I just thought of something but I’m gonna wait for a bit to say it until some other people write their readlists/input first.

[Arctic]

@Appelsiini

From looking at ISOs, I have concluded that Gorta can only be a wolf if their teammate is Arctic unless there is distancing going on

so you’re telling me that here it would make more sense for me to vote you over gorta since gorta apparently can’t be mafia unless i am? lol

[kiromishiro21]

We have 6 hours left. Help me figure this out. It’s my second game here: l
I need help

[Arctic]

The only reason I am not 100% happy to kill gorta rn is because as many of us have pointed out the scum team wouldn’t really make sense

Also, say out of gorta and appel we think there is a scum, who is the second?
And what if neither of them are

I honestly think YBW is mafia at this point
Their reads are inconsistent and they have learnt nothing from D1 about jumping too quickly on trains

what does everyone else think about YBW
because i’m really doubting either of kiro and cloned are scum and possibly even between appel and gorta

[an_gorta_pratai]

Appel's handling of my slot

For starters I don’t like how Appel handles my slot.
Like she goes from this

@Appelsiini

Would you believe me if I said I had a secret toneread on you as a wolf

With that said, your tone seems very towny right now

to this

@Appelsiini

Hmm. Nagito is a character from the same game my pfp is from.

@an_gorta_pratai are you here? I was reading a bit and noticed you still hadn’t made the realist.

/vote an_gorta_pratai

Parking my vote here until you do, if you don’t mind.

The thing is pressure votes don’t usually do shit to increase my activity and activity (or the lack thereof) is NAI for my slot, as I can be lazy/unmotivated. Appel knows this as well, which to me looks like she is casting shade on my slot.

@Appelsiini

Readlist + PoE

Silviu
Clonedcheese
Windward
ArcticXI

Min
YouButWorse
kiromishiro
an_gorta_pratai

I also become her number 1 scum at this moment, which is strange because Appel says this a bit later

@Appelsiini

Did you just put my 30-minute wallpost into two sentences right before I posted it
Gorta, are you town after all
I like your reads

and then Appel switches her read on me again

@Appelsiini

You know, I’m not that opposed to moving my vote from Gorta. He’s spent a considerable amount of the day doing nothing yet still trying to appear active, along with the fact that they easily jumped on scumreading Windward.

@an_gorta_pratai

Maybe I am being too soft on newbies

This is the second time I’ve seen you say this. Stop hedging~

@Appelsiini

Keeping* my vote on Gorta. I’m extremely tired.

and then goes

@Appelsiini

Meh. I think you’re a wolf.
Could you write a quick readlist for me to see where you’re at. Just in case?

At this point I made a complete readlist and now for d2

@Appelsiini

It’s 1AM, so don’t expect wallposts from me, but I told you time and time again why Silviu is town. This was disappointing.

I’ll make my full case later, but Gorta is a wolf. He’s an obvious wolf. He quite literally voted his top townread after his top townread claimed PR and pushed for a CFD, which he accepted without question – this feels like TMI. He never even considered the possibility of Cloned lying in order to not be killed.

/vote Gorta

Appel then votes me on d2 and maintains that vote for a long while even after I attempt to explain my own actions and that’s when the real shading starts.

@Appelsiini

I feel like whatever Gorta is going to say about his play at EoD, it’s going to be either AtE (appeal to emotion) or trying to excuse their play somehow. But doing a 180⁰ in the span of mere minutes and voting their strongest townread, led by their strongest scumread, is such a baffling play that I doubt I’m going to believe anything he says.

@an_gorta_pratai

so I am inclined to believe that the claim is either real or he is a wolf faking it.

No, you’re not. You immediately jumped to “Cloned is speaking the truth” mindset, which was consistent until I pointed it out. Do your reads matter to you at all?

[SFM] Newbie-Friendly Pokèmon 9er - Day 2 (7/9)

@Appelsiini

…Because Gorta was actively pushing for a kill in Cloned/Wind, and has, in my opinion, shown TMI that at the very least Cloned is town? While dismissing everyone else in the process?

What makes it a contradiction?

I think so because YBW, as a wolf with Gorta, most likely wouldn’t throw his partner under the bus at the very beginning of the way. There’s not much I have going for you three, I’m planning to focus on you guys next now that I’ve gotten my thoughts out.

@Appelsiini

I’m tired and didn’t plan to talk until tomorrow, but you sure are doing a great job shading me.

“Appel has done this as a wolf”
“Appel has done that as a wolf”

“I screwed up with my vote, but I think Appel is a wolf for scumreading me”

Your whole argument is based on how I’m supposedly in my wolf range, rather than actually finding me wolfy – save for my push on you. It irritates me.

@Appelsiini

Once again, great job shading me. This argument, in its very core, is: “Appel has done something as town, something weird happened so Appel is a wolf wolf wolf”

On an unrelated note, this seems like you know exactly why Min was killed, as you obviously seem to know that me being a wolf is the omly possible reason. I’m too tired for this

@Appelsiini

Thank you, you just contradicted yourself.

You hold the players to such a low standard that you don’t think they will be able to do a slightly less obvious nightkill.

But you’re also saying you hold them to a high enough standard to figure out Min was killed in order to make you look worse – which didn’t happen, by the way. Cloned was the one to point out how the nightkill made you look worse.

@Appelsiini

Yup. But you’re still saying newbies could only figure it out if they happen to be town, huh. I wonder why~?

By the way, did you notice you’ve been scumslipping this entire time? As much as you like to push your Scum!Appel agenta, you’ve completely failed to consider a world where Cloned makes that nightkill. You’ve been showing your TMI on Cloned this whole time. I’m literally done trying to consider the 0.1% where you’re just a town who made a baffling mistake.

and they start thinking I am a bad towny?

@Appelsiini

You know, maybe that’s a sign. I wish you luck with your project, but it all boils down to “this is in Appel’s wolfrange” and nothing more.

YBW’s behavior is making me confident they’re not W/W with Gorta, so I might actually be wrong here unless the scumteam is exactly Gorta and Arctic/Kiro. I might be willing to re-evaluate and read over.

…Well, that’s what I was originally going to do after I would’ve talked with Arctic and Kiro as well. Too bad that got completely ignored, huh?

@Appelsiini

/unvote

Unvoting, for now.

@Appelsiini

I’m trying my best to word things nicely here. Sometimes it seems impossible for me to understand someone’s mindset, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not genuine.

With that said
If I can’t see a T!Gorta perspective no matter how hard I try, I’m going to be angry with you

after this point Appel goes back to shading and misunderstanding the things I say

@Appelsiini

I’m currently reading people’s ISOs, but I just realized that I was tired and not thinking straight – Gorta was still showing TMI on Cloned this whole time, because even though Cloned visited Wind, he could have just told their teammate who to kill.

@an_gorta_pratai are you done with your case?

@Appelsiini

…What?

You just completely avoided my question. What does my meta read have anything to do with you not considering such a simple world where wolf!Cloned could have made that kill?

@Appelsiini

This was some time after I made my wallpost. Interesting. Did you forget your own thought process, too?

@Appelsiini

Those would be “considering possibilities other than the one you’re pushing.” Before you start arguing, the point wasn’t that there might be an explanation for it because you yourself said you forgot – which is essentially admitting that you hadn’t given much thought to it.

the odd thing is that they flip back to the belief that I am a “bad towny”

@Appelsiini

From looking at ISOs, I have concluded that Gorta can only be a wolf if their teammate is Arctic unless there is distancing going on – in that case, it could still be Kiro or YBW, but I heavily doubt it.

But truth to be told: Gorta has shown such narrow thought process, making a mistake after mistake, not thinking about things which can also be an indication of confbias – but I feel like I shouldn’t be giving them countless, countless of excuses in order to say “okay, maybe they’re not a wolf.” But sometimes life doesn’t work like that, so I would still like to consider it.

@WindwardAway since you were more focused on YBW, do you think there’s a possibility where Gorta is just… a bad town?

@Appelsiini

I’m seriously trying to take the mindset of “Gorta is town here.”

Gorta, have you looked at my Day 1? Why do you think I have done the things I did? You haven’t talked about that at all, which is a bit concerning. If you’re so confident on your scumread, surely you’ll be able to explain all of it. Right?

---

Appel throwing shade on the prs

I also get the vibe that Appel was trying to throw sus in between the two and get one of them out after me

@Appelsiini

The fact that you had this answer immediately ready is a bit
What do you have to say for yourself? I think you should fullclaim here.

@Appelsiini

If we miscuddle someone here, we still have one more chance. I don’t think Cloned would therefore go for a 1v1, unless he’s trying to save Gorta here somehow.

@Appelsiini

All I have for Windward is a toneread, so now I’m wondering if I’m misclearing them. All their actions so far haven’t been out of question for scum. With that said, the toneread is very strong, and I’m not sure if she could fake it that well – but they also do have experience on other sites.

Focusing on the claim, I think it makes her townier. Immediately confirming her accuser is an interesting risk to take if they they’re a wolf – especially since we’re talking about a PR.

Appel is a very capable wolf and usually keeps bad townies alive and tries to let the town fight each other till they lose. In one game she didn’t kill everyones top townread to cast doubt on said person. This factors in with what I have above. If you want additional reading I linked 3 town and 3 scum Appel games

additional reading

Corrupt Votes FM - Day 6 (3/15) - Town wins by voting out town mafia
Watch Your Mouth!: Sophomore Year (3/17) - Day 5 - Planters (Mafia) Win! mafia
[FoL] Forum of Lies 29 - OVER (9/18) - CULT FOOL WIN mafia
Wild West FM - Day 5 - Mafia Win! ~ town
[Misc] Airlock (Aliens Win) ~ town
Dreaming Gods and Dreaming Titans FM - Game Over [5/24] - Bellerophon and Pegasus Win! ~ town game

[kiromishiro21]

I thought the same and said it before. wait…

[an_gorta_pratai]

I wanted to make a fancier case, but that’s my reasoning for suspecting Appel (that and paranoia)

[kiromishiro21]

@kiromishiro21

@YoubutWorse

SCUMLIST

Town
Me

Clone

I mean he outed as the PR, probably confirmed town unless someone decides to CC

Wind

Outed as an inves role (I think?), and I believe him

Appel

Appel has been acting very town like. They jumped off of silviu who we now know is town, which could be a scum play but from everything else theyve said they seem to be town. They also voted gorta, and I regret not voting gorta with them.

Arctic

Arctic still hasn’t jumped off of that “wind may be scum” train which may seem sus to some people but it makes sense in my head. Scum could still lie about not being VT. Although i believe wind I see where arctic is coming from and it doesn’t seem like something a scum would do. I think a scum would instead switch targets to somebody else more suspicous after they out something like that.

Kiro

The way Kiro pushed on cloned with gorta made me very suspicous of them. They didn’t even change their vote when they outed as the pr. He may be acting in a sus way to avoid death, but you sould always want to die if it helps the town. I think one of gorta or kiro is scum, either w/w, t/w, or w/t. Kiro is a bit more towny imo compared to Gorta but I think they should still both be looked at heavily over the coming hours.

Gorta

If there is one thing I wish that I could do better, it would be that I wished I pushed on Gorta more. I wish I didn’t panic, but instead stood calm and voted Gorta, who I thought was scum anyhow. A lot of people at the time were saying it was either Cloned or silviu, and I didnt think it was either but I didnt want to not vote with the town because I assumed they would make better calls than me. I 100% believe that Gorta or Kiro are scum, more so leaning towards Gorta. They pushed a ton on Cloned when they’re the power role, and when i asked for defences from them, they instead gave me reasons to vote cloned instead of them which isn’t something I think a town would do. I want to hear defences from them heavily, as they are the biggest sus I’ve ever had. As I stated earlier, I regret being too scared to vote Gorta D1.

Scum

@YoubutWorse

I agree with this for the most part, but I do think that you should be included in that list and that we should definitely take a look at appel since they seem to be very good at acting town as scum

You also think something similar to gorta and want to push appel because “appel seems to be good as ww?” You have the same reasoning as your scum. And I also don’t forget when gorta said it could be appel and almost immediately you said the same and supported it. That seemed like an action that a scum could take … Although it was very careless. I do not know if you are a noob because it is your first game or because you won the mood to show your true intention to kill appel today

This is weird

[WindwardAway]

If we’re focusing on pairings I’m gonna say if Kiro is a wolf, he can pretty much only be a wolf with either Appel or Cloned. I feel pretty weird about the possibility that both the other PR claims are wolves, so it’s not very high on my scum pairing list and I’m kind of tempted to clear both of them since we’ll see what the night brings.

Also, Arctic, I’m still scumreading Worse based on his actions as I said. Seems like a good candidate for newbie wolf.

Gorta, you said Appel likes to keep bad townies alive, but she’s been pushing you as either scum or bad townie. Not sure that makes her scum.

[kiromishiro21]

wtffff

[WindwardAway]

That is very weird…

[Arctic]

i just don’t know what to do
if it’s neither appel nor gorta and we kill both today and tomorrow we lose

but then i also don’t want to lead a mislynch on ybw and screw us over

and tracker can’t really confirm everyone since the mafia PR doesn’t have to be shown as killing

[WindwardAway]

Well, I’m positive that Cloned was not the one who made the kill at any rate lol. That’s basically all I know. He’s a PR of some sort and he wasn’t the N1 killer.

[kiromishiro21]

I can only say that we must make sure we vote for a baddie. Anyway from what I said earlier I don’t think wing is telling us all lies. So he will definitely confirm another player tomorrow and live to tell the tale.

[an_gorta_pratai]

@WindwardAway

Gorta, you said Appel likes to keep bad townies alive, but she’s been pushing you as either scum or bad townie. Not sure that makes her scum.

Appel likes chaos, which comes from bad townies. Like I am an easy mislynch, but the chaos that has come from this argument today isn’t the best for the threadstate. It’s easier to hide if everyone is fighting and there is chaos. My point is I don’t like how she moves me from town -> scum -> town -> to scum -> to bad towny.

[WindwardAway]

I think Worse is the least likely candidate to flip as a mislynch, if I’m being honest. It’s either a 50/50 between Appel and Gorta, or we’re actually looking at two townies sussing each other. Also, if Worse flips scum then imo neither Gorta nor Kiro is scum.

But I want Worse to weigh in here, with his own words, and without piggybacking on others’ opinions.

[Arctic]

@WindwardAway

But I want Worse to weigh in here, with his own words, and without piggybacking on others’ opinions.

the only time he has done this was when he had a read on gorta d1 which he hardly pursued

[WindwardAway]

That’s exactly my point. I want him to speak up and give us a solid reason why we shouldn’t be scumreading him.

[an_gorta_pratai]

It could be that I am paranoid after seeing what Appel can do as scum first hand and I know that she could mess a group of newbies up big time. That’s what scares me here and in the past I have read people based on how they read my slot. Throwing shade on my slot + switching their read on me in the span of minutes concerns me.