look, I’m not saying that you made up those reads on the spot when we started pushing you, I know that’s not true
I just think it’s suspicious that you come back to the thread 15 minutes after I turn you into a major wagon after being gone for nearly 12 hours and declare that you think the wolfteam is exactly the three people voting you and no one else, including none of the players you’d previously suspected who aren’t voting you, and apply literally no additional thought to this beyond repeating arguments you’ve already said
the difference between y’all and those that I might have suspected before is that I have a greater feeling y’all are scum here. Marl is usually just weird in terms of playstyle and I don’t know how to read Marl
Alright, I am reasonably sure I’ve gamesolved here. I don’t want to call it too early and it definitely relies on preflips and me being correct, but I want to put it out there so its there if I die. I am very open to discussing what I’m going to say here because I want to make sure I’m not tunnelled on someone like Cabbage. Without further ado, let’s begin.
Cabbage
Let’s begin with Cabbage, I initially disliked their day 1, they felt extremely robotic to the point where everything they said felt extremely crafted. They got slightly better as the day grew on, and were defended by Arete on the basis that they were alts (with Arete possibly faking/not faking genuine frustration about not be able to read alts based on tone).
Lets go through their ISO:
Immediately starts an OMGUS vanity push on Emilia which seems extremely fake. The reasoning is poor and cabbage tries to remove any suspicion for pushing back on Emilia instead of other people who voted Cabbage because Emilia had a reason to vote. Emilia is 100% an easier mislynch than hippo in most regards, and cabbage knows this because they are an alt.
Completely misrepresents Emilia’s defence to his accusation, in order to make Emilia seem more scummy, despite Emilia being very much her usual towny self.
This is such a bad reason to wolfread Marshal and is just extremely worldbuildy. In what world does Marshal so obviously bus a teammate 2 hours in?? That’s so unnatural.
What?
Having gripes with tonereads day 1, when that is the major form of early day 1 read is pretty wolfy. It’s like cabbage is trying to reduce the number of early town clears in order to keep the PoE wide.
Attempting to discredit early reads.
Again trying to discredit townreads. This may mean Eli and cabbage can’t be a team though.
Cabbage is very much focussed on one scumread for the majority of day 1.
Discrediting.
Very very crafted post.
Very worldbuildy to instantly jump to the conclusion that Marshal was bussing, especially now that Marshal has flipped town.
I noted afterwards that cabbage was feeling less robotic.
Hyperfocussed on Emilia again. The rest of the post is alright, I don’t mind their reasoning for feeling scared about Aelin, and it makes sense, I felt the same way the next day.
On another note, gorta seems very LHF this game.
Very whiteknighty of Aelin. It does really feel like TMI, Aelin did not have any good looks the entire game, part of the reason I went for him, but Cabbage is hard defending him without much reason to (other than a fast wagon).
More whiteknighting.
More whiteknighting.
very crafted post/very wolfy. They find it ‘laughable’ that someone would suspect them. This is textbook wolf discrediting.
Notice how he says he scumreads three top players, yet the only players he has actually pushed are LHF players? It very much seems like he is only targeting players who are easy lynches.
Finally switches to gorta after being focussed on Emilia, out of seemingly nowhere.
Whiteknighting.
This is such such poor reasoning and was my first suspicion of them being teamed. it’s such an artificial backflip from scumreading Arete and reeks of a planned reasoning in scumchat after hitting Marshal.
Okay kinda weird, I’m confused.
The Agenda Begins:
Cabbage instantly starts the day hard on Emilia, conveniently one of the things they’d have to do if they were a wolf. They don’t re-evaluate at all after two town flips.
And the next post is the other side of the agenda. Both day 1 wagons were town, no question about it.
Agenda
Okay this post is actually decent, their push on Arete here makes sense and its cabbage’s first push on someone that isn’t LHF. It’s definitely what I was thinking about Arete as well, though I was really hoping Arete was town. However, despite an actually decent reason to scumread Arete, they still continue to hard tunnel Emilia:
More Emilia aaaaaa
More Agenda, cabbage repeatedly repeats this in an attempt to make players subconsciously believe it. it’s how misinformation spreads.
Best mafia play is to lynch the counter-wagon.
I said before: My point is the way you go about it is very agendery. You’re hyperfocussed on two things: 1. the top wagons yesterday were T/T and 2. Emilia is wolf, besides that you don’t see to be gamesolving. I honestly think if you’d town you’d come across way less agendery and focus less on self-preservation here. Cabbage does not take a whole game approach until told to by others, he constantly focuses on pushing these two points alone until he is called out for it.
Fair excuse. however, it is also the way your posts are crafted/extremely thought out as pointed out earlier.
This is gorta’s town game though.
Agenda and self-preservation. I hate this post with a passion.
Still hyperfocussed on Emilia until told to do something else by myself.
Ditto
His whole argument against Emilia is precedent upon the agenda as well.
Discrediting of tonereads.
And then swaps his focus from Emilia back to gorta at a whim, who is a LHF and an easy mislynch to keep himself alive.
Wazza read is okay, though I feel wazza is town from his other contributions.
Response
I don’t believe a towny would be so focussed on LHF exclusively and self-preservation. Also of note is that he has now completely forgotten his scumread of Arete, and evenly subtley defends scumreads on Arete, pretty convenient if they’re teamed:
Read on Eli is okay, would make sense from a towny or a teammate.
Overall, Cabbage has been hyperfocussed on LHF players from the start of the game. He says he has scumreads on strong players, but does not follow these up and continues to push on players who would be an easy mislynch. These reads on players like myself don’t change his view of the weaker players and his reads appear in a vaccuum, not in the context of the game and a team. His scumreads are of individual players and he doesn’t consider how they’d fit together, indicative of mid-level wolf read faking. His read on Marshal was extremely worldbuildy and made no sense, especially as Marshal flipped town. Day 2 he pushes an agenda by repeatedly stating the two things that will keep him alive, wagons are T/T and Emilia is a wolf. He doesn’t take a look at the whole game at all, even when prompted by myself (he made a few reads in isolation again) and continues to focus either on Emilia and gorta, both LHF who are easy alternatives to himself. his focus on self-preservation is extremely wolf-like, as a wolf needs to survive a lot more than a towny does, and he never takes a look at the game as a whole. In other words, his entire worldview comes from a wolf faking his reads. The Marshal night kill makes a lot of sense, as marshal was the main pusher on cabbage and would defeat his agenda the next day. Marshal was otherwise scumread and would probably have been a good mislynch target from Arete. Also he was the counterwagon to a town member, and should just be lynched for good mafia play, and he definitely should not be allowed to endgame. Overall, cabbage has an extremely high wolf-equity and should be the lynch for today.
In order to split this up, I am going to make another post on the other player I definitely think is scum.
This one is about a player who is pretty scummy in their own right, but also has very good partner equity with Cabbage, should cabbage flip scum.
Arete:
Arete instantly begins the game with a push on Marshal, not something too out of the ordinary for Arete, though it did give me the feeling that Arete felt like they had to start the game off with something spicy or be scumread for their entrance.
Fair enough.
Interesting take? I don’t feel like Marshal was thinking like this, and he flipped town.
Although notice how Arete replaced daisy, who was Marshal’s number 1 scumread and then goes right off in an OMGUS fashion at marshal. Marshal was very confident in that scumread of Daisy/GGhana btw.
Fair enough townreads, I agreed with these except for Eli.
I really do not like her reason for Scumreading Marshal, and it seems to have been prompted by how much marshal scumread their slot.
Here’s that frustration I mentioned earlier, which would be a good way to subtly defend cabbage here if they’re partnered.
Such a weird way to justify a vote tbh. it’s like she anticipating pushback for this, yet if shes so confident why would there be any push back in her mind?
I disagree with this interpretation as said earlier, I think it showed a lack of self-awareness.
Interesting way to justify not looking at marshal’s entire view to read him, and instead hyperfocus on one aspect of his ISO to shade him.
I hate this
Backs off of cabbage. NAI I’d say.
Good post.
Metas Marshal after scumreading Marshal for using Meta?
Interesting that Arete continues to tunnel despite Marshal’s and herself’s reads being similar.
I thought it was a funny joke.
Arete probes Gorta a lot day one, which is slightly towny.
I disagree with Eli/Cabbage/Wendy on this readlist.
Interesting take.
Teammate equity in this post, seems quite self-aware as to what they’re doing and thinks by saying it it’ll reduce suspicion on them.
Hard disagree.
Defending cabbage.
Disagree
This is so fucking agendery btw
The wallpost, initially I thought it was a shoddy attempt for towncred, then I agreed with Marl that she posted it for the lols, which she said, but I keep looking at it and going why? Additionally, for a Arete wallpost, its very lacklustre and doesn’t seem to be genuine at all, just like her whole push on Marshal. She also doesn’t re-eval after a town Marshal flip.
She keeps the act up for a bit.
Agenda that the Marshal kill was simply an SPK, despite the fact that Marshal had a lot of pressure on him and would be a possible mislynch. This would clear Arete of the suspicion of the Marshal kill
No clue why that was a pretty inconspicuous post from ketamine.
And then she admits it. I don’t know why she didn’t just say it at the start and instead try to keep up appearances that she didnt see the flip before she posted the wallpost? Seems like she was trying to grab towncred and realised it wasn’t working/getting her too much heat.
Decent point though.
AGENDA
defending Eli
I really don’t like the way Arete is pressuring gorta here. Gorta’s thoughts feel like thoughts he has all the time as town, yet Arete is construing them in a scummy way. Its hard to put my finger on it, but I feel like if Arete was town here she’d look at gorta’s posts a different way.
Defending cabbage.
I feel like this sequence of posts was pretty disingenous. Gorta’s suspicions have been said by him multiple times, he just has trouble articulating them. I feel like Arete is trying to make it seem worse, and it would make sense that he sees the people voting him as scum as he is LHF.
Btw this would explain the Marshal kill in one post. Marshal’s suspicions on both cabbage and Arete were strong. his kill otherwise makes no sense.
Overall, Arete, although not as individually scummy as Cabbage, has strong partner equity there. Marshal was hardpushing Arete’s slot and she felt the need to push him back and to have a strong entrance. I do agree with some of her posts, however, she is a strong player and perfectly capable and faking real reads when she needs to. The rest of her ISO is sometimes shading cabbage and other times defending them, in a very partnery manner. Her pushes on gorta align with cabbage, despite gorta’s best attempts to defend himself. I honestly think gorta might be town here. I don’t like the way she misrepresents gorta and I feel if she was town she’d treat him better.
The way cabbage and arete treat each other, by sometimes scumreading one another, and others times defnding one another only makes sense if they’re both wolves. Also Arete is a better player than to not lynch the counterwagon to a towny here I think.
Overall, we should lynch cabbage then Arete if cabbage flips Mafia, although Arete has decent mafia equity herself.
I feel there were definitely some other thoughts I had about Arete but I forgot them when writing that post, so if there are any questions feel free to ask me.
But yeah, I didn’t like Arete’s vibe when pushing gorta
